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Turnberry:

Absolutely. That’s how it used to be. You would look and say, ok I need something off these 4 bosses and don’t need anything from these 4. At that point you could swap out for someone in your guild who needed something from those bosses you didn’t need.

The idea of achieving BiS gear is a good thing for an rpg. There should be an end point and a goal you can reach. The never ending carrot on a stick gear method works for ARPGs like Diablo, but it’s terrible in an MMO.

Have you ever felt, at any point, that there isn’t enough to do in this game?

Mogar:

I do see a parallel of mind-controlling us with the potential update of News only to cast us into the Fires of Soon™ below.

Aiming for a genuine classic experience here aren’t we?

Yes, this is a joke.

To protect home, and family

To preserve balance, and bring harmony

Rabidabidoo:

ALL HAIL A MESSAGE FROM ABOVE!!! ALL HAIL OUR OVERLORDES GRACING US!!

Okay who let the Death Knight in here? (please stay on topic!)

I did switch over to a warrior once (after several months) I learned Shaman couldn’t tank. /themoreyouknow

Thinking I’ll tank stuff as a shaman, does that count?

Turnberry:

The warfront quest, emissaries, M+ weekly lootbox, and world boss give way too high of gear. And the fact that these can titanforge to Mythic raid or 2400 PvP rating levels is absurd. Yes it might be only 1 piece every couple weeks, but it makes gear and ilvl meaningless. You don’t look forward to a specific drop anymore because the next time you afk in that warfront, or open your lootbox on Tuesday, you can replace any piece of gear.

Can you expand on how that trickle of items from the sources make gear and item-level meaningless?

Is it accurate to say that you no longer look forward to a drop, even if it’s a big upgrade, because there might be something else that replaces it soon? When there are like two weapons available in a raid and one is better for you, do you ignore the weaker one even if it’s a solid upgrade?

Stompypotato:

We can lose a warfront? I didn’t think that was possible.

OMG yes. I’ve been in two losing Warfronts.

A confluence of people who do non-objective things (exploring the zone to see what it looks like and where the boundaries are, spending a lot of time reading the detailed offerings at the various buildings, going deep into the mine and then getting carried away fighting mobs in there, etc.) can easily get overrun by the defending faction.

But that’s hopefully a learning experience for those participants.

I’d personally like a Fire Mage at level 110, to level to 120 and go DPS my face off. Super fun IMO.

Totemterror:

My guildies and I had a discussion about pugging recently actually. We were talking about how the LFG only shows ilvl and how that hardly ever is indicative of the player’s ability (for better or worse). Sure, we could literally just pick at random to fill the slot (and ignore mistakes and help em out), but if we wanna get through the content it in a timely manner, of course we want someone qualified. So in that sense, if you don’t know if that player earned their 400 avg ilvl equivalent, how do you know what they are actually qualified for?

What content are you doing for this? How many people do you think have a 400 item level average from just doing like warfronts and world quests? Have you come across people with solid raid experience who haven’t run a specific dungeon? (I have)

Abruek:

It’s about both, and in equal parts a concern.

The loot system is completely disruptive towards organised and team efforts, making progression feel less like a team commitment and responsibility, and more inconsiderate to other players.

WF/TF is incredibly harmful to these teams, especially when a particular player might constantly achieve good rolls. I want to be able to kill a boss on the hardest difficulty and receive a reward equal to the effort I put in, having a Mythic boss drop gear under the current max makes me hate how I have the be lucky to achieve and actual BiS piece. It needs to be 425, socketed, with leech.

Just speaking hypothetical, if WF/TF existed for lower level gear, but like Mythic raiding always 100% had the BiS pieces, would you be satisfied? Even if you don’t do that content?

Abruek:

You should consider loot distribution first-hand, most of us still want Masterloot.

Rewards should equal the difficulty of the content, and time commitment should maybe have a factor, handing out endgame gear, and even having it “possibly” be the best gear possible is super dissatisfying as a player.

Has there ever been a point while playing the game where you haven’t had the time/ability to be pushing content? I know we have a dedicated crowd here (General Discussion represent!) but I’m trying to understand your history as well as others to see if they have been in other positions and how the rewards worked for them.

Abruek:

Concerned enough to peer over logs and RaiderIO when doing PuG content. There is almost no way of telling if a player actually earned their gear anymore.

It’s incredibly harmful to the game and community.

But when doing PuG content, why does it matter how they earned it? What content are you doing that requires this scrutiny? Are you pushing Mythic+ with PuGs and having issues? Personally I just roll with things as some under-geared players are pretty good at the game and if someone is making mistakes I try and help them out a bit or just focus on what I can do to help the group.

Abruek:

(I really enjoy these discussive posts, keep it up )

Cheers

It also depends a lot, in my opinion, on what you like to do. I find that leveling my Shaman is best in dungeons, and I flip over to my leveling Hunter when I want to do solo stuff.

We’re coming together to test the new Wintergrasp epic battleground experience in the 8.1.5 PTR, and would love for you to join us!

On Tuesday, February 19, beginning at 2:00 p.m. Pacific time (5:00 p.m. Eastern), we’ll be queueing up for Wintergrasp. Get your PTR character(s) ready at level 120 on the Broxigar server, and then at 2:00 p.m.:

• Open Group Finder (default hotkey: i)
• Select the Player vs. Player tab
• Select Quick Match
• In the dropdown, choose “Specific Battlegrounds”
• Select “Wintergrasp” and then hit the Join Battle button

Thank you very much, and we look forward to bombarding some frozen walls with you!

Turnberry:

Let’s see here… If you want to stay competitive on your character you have to do all the content available. That is how you guys have designed the game. I would love to just raid and get everything I need but I can’t. I have to do islands and world quests to keep my neck level acceptable to stay on the raid team. I have to do my weekly M+ for my Tuesday lootbox.I would be dumb to not do the warfront quest because for some reason you guys give 400 ilvl gear for this “content” that is easier than LFR which gives 370 gear.

Think about this… afk’ing in a warfront gives the same quality of gear as Heroic Jaina. Why?

I know you removed the part where I mentioned ‘pushing content’ and such, but it sounds like you feel there are just too many sources for loot and so it’s a large time commitment to keep up with all of them based on the requirements of the raid group that you have joined. Is that right?

Also, how much gear do you get each week from the warfront vs. the raid up to and including Heroic Jaina? I have a hunch one is much higher than the other.

Toneloktar:

Is classic WoW dead now that ActiBlizz is vetting all of their employees? Think it will still happen?

I’m closing this as I believe it only has the potential to confuse some people. Nothing has changed regarding Classic.

No Classic in 2019 Classic Discussion

The announced year for releasing WoW Classic, 2019, has not changed.

Dalistar:

Now it seems based on what you have said is that the developers want us to do all aspects of the game in order to get gear and the challenge we have sought. You can no longer focus on things that appeal to you, now you have to jump in all things for the satisfaction you used to get.

Why do you feel you need to do all of the content? You can do the content that you enjoy and you will get rewarded for it. Yes, there are other avenues to gear up and it makes sense to do a bunch of them if you are pushing content, but how come it’s not optional based on your play style/time? There can be long gaps where I don’t do any PvP and could be missing out on gear but that only affects me if I’m trying to squeeze out every item level - I prefer to just focus on things I want to do with the time I have.

Abruek:

As an organised raider, it’s immeasurably more satisfying looking at the loot we earned, rather than the single piece I earned. Anyone who’s ever complained about item passovers were either underperforming or plain didn’t deserve it.

Bring back Master Loot.

So in your case, is your concern is more about the loot system and less about WF/TF?

Also, I understand where you are coming from as an organized raider. How much do you feel we should consider the play styles of others when it comes to rewards? We really try to cover a wide range of play styles and how concerned are you with what items those other people have?

Saroserice:

Let’s be clear here that “zero effort” isn’t literally zero effort. It’s shorthand for an amount of effort so minimal as to be trivial.

I see what you are saying about the “zero effort”, but in a related conversation, if you are doing all of the sources of gear it does take time and a commitment. Do you feel that if someone is doing an organized raid for 4ish hours a week they should without question be a higher item level than someone who doesn’t raid but likes to do a variety of different things - often by themself - but plays for 20ish hours a week?

Saroserice:

Loot feels earned when your fellow players give it to you.

How does it feel if you get passed over on receiving the same item multiple times in a row?

In your opinion, should mythic plus and organized raiding be the only sources of loot and everything else gives some flatline blue gear?

Dalistar:

I understand your point of view, my problem is time now. Before BFA my limited time playing the game didn’t hurt me. I could commit to 2 days of raiding with my friends and maybe a couple hours more a week outside that. Now it just doesn’t work, my style of play doesn’t work for the current gaming model in WoW so it is what it is. I just wasn’t ready to stop playing but things change and game has too I just got to old.

I don’t quite understand how your play style doesn’t work though and not sure if this is really related to TF/WF.

You are focusing on raiding (it sounds like) and getting toward the item level of that raid and you aren’t putting in extra hours to maximize gear. Is that right? So if you aren’t putting in a bunch of extra hours, is your gear bothering you because you used to do that and you aren’t used to being a lower item level than the others you play with?